Recent versions of firmware will be removed

M7HGM
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:36 pm

Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by M7HGM » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:09 pm

da3020 wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:00 pm
I can download latest stable release D2021.01.19.01 but how can I upload it to radio?
Seriously

ZL2FL
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:26 am

Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by ZL2FL » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:56 pm

:lol:

Jimmy
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:00 pm

Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by Jimmy » Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:16 pm

Is there any possibility to stop KC7RBW?

VK3KYY
Posts: 3597
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by VK3KYY » Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:21 am

Jimmy wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:16 pm
Is there any possibility to stop KC7RBW?
IMNAL, but KC7RBW is within his legal rights to do what he did.

The fundamental problem is that the basis of his legal rights is that the source code is released under the GPL license.

But the project always stipulated some essential additional clauses on top of GPL. Specifically absolutely no commercial use of the source code and hence of the firmware.

Again IMNAL, but KC7RBW contents that no additional clauses can be specified on top of GPL.
This is disputed by G4KLX who wrote MMDVMHost, which uses the same GPL + roughly the same additional no commcerial use causes.

I have no idea who is right, and only a court in USA could decide.

Hence the only way to resolve this problem is to attempt to change the license so tha GPL can't be used against the project.

HB9TZX
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:51 pm

Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by HB9TZX » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:14 pm

Sorry, came late to the actual developments, so maybe I missed this:

Does KC7RBW have any legal standing in this case? So, does he legally work for any of the copyright holders of any of the code in question?

Just to be clear: If there is no plaintiff, then there is no legal case. Even if some guy comes and says that there is something not correctly compliant with the license, that doesn't mean that he can sue. He must have standing for this, e.g. he must have a harm done to him in order to be able to sue. And that typically can only be the copyright holder. At the moment I can't imagine that any of the copyright holders of any GPL code would sue this project. They could probably be contacted and asked if they don't agree with the use of their code in this project, just to be sure.

As I said, I just came to the party, but in all cases I know, where someone sued anyone aboiut misusage of GPL code, it was always in the name of the copyright holder (and typically against companies that sell products based on GPL code without publishing the source).

Just my 2¢

EDIT: Just read through the 8 pages of discussion. Seems the original issue of linking a binary blob against GPL code has morphed into something like adding additional lines to the GPL, which are not valid.

Whatever, it is a pity that this project is dead. This was the only open source community radio firmware in a well usable state. And it is probably the last. Most projects that started died because of the complexity of the work. So, we will be left with OEM firmware at the mercy of the manufacturer. Best bet is probably Anytone, which at least sometimes listens to its user base and does some firmware updates here and then. Most other, like Yaesu, Kenwood etc do never publish any updates. If we want new features, we'll need to buy a new handset again. So sad :(

K4ED
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:04 pm

Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by K4ED » Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:55 pm

>>Does KC7RBW have any legal standing in this case? So, does he legally work for any of the copyright holders of any of the code in question?

He actually is one of the copyright holders for at least a part of the code ...

VK3KYY
Posts: 3597
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by VK3KYY » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:42 pm

K4ED wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:55 pm
>>Does KC7RBW have any legal standing in this case? So, does he legally work for any of the copyright holders of any of the code in question?

He actually is one of the copyright holders for at least a part of the code ...
Yes.

The git log shows he changed 2070 lines of code

Code: Select all

Andrew Jorgensen <>:
  insertions:    1675 (0%)
  deletions:     395 (0%)
  files:         44 (1%)
  commits:       20 (1%)
  lines changed: 2070 (0%)
  first commit:  Sat Nov 16 15:51:18 2019 -0800
  last commit:   Fri Aug 21 20:38:08 2020 -0700

His last change was Aug 21 2020, and a significant portion of his contribution was rewritten, as part of a general overhaul of the code, and not specifically to remove things he has done

However, some of his changes still exist in the code.

He definietly changed some pixels in the font.
He contributed the DCS functionality, as well as changes to the User Guide, CTCSS and lots of other small things like

Code: Select all

  Change   Display "VFO:B" instead of "VFO B" in quick menu
So in terms of the released binary, contributions from him are included.

However they could be removed, albeit with the loss of DCS and some other things.

ve7mdt
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:23 am
Location: CN89

Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by ve7mdt » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:47 am

HB9TZX wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:14 pm

Whatever, it is a pity that this project is dead. This was the only open source community radio firmware in a well usable state. And it is probably the last. Most projects that started died because of the complexity of the work. So, we will be left with OEM firmware at the mercy of the manufacturer. Best bet is probably Anytone, which at least sometimes listens to its user base and does some firmware updates here and then. Most other, like Yaesu, Kenwood etc do never publish any updates. If we want new features, we'll need to buy a new handset again. So sad :(
Well, according to KC7RBW, he is actually "hopeful" now (and also "relieved" and some other sentiments that he wrote). He said that it does not mean that the project is dead. But he also added that he was not going to become the new maintainer.

Personally I feel sorry that it has to come to this. But oh well.

I do thank all the contributors to this project, especially Roger.
73,
David
VE7ET / VE7MDT
DMR radios: D878UV, D578UV-III (not arrived yet), XPR 5550, XPR 4550, XPR 7550, SL 7550, VXD-7200, CS-800D, RD-5R, GD-77, RT3s, MD-340 (not arrived yet)
DMR repeater: XPR 8400 UHF

VK3KYY
Posts: 3597
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by VK3KYY » Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:23 am

ve7mdt wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:47 am
HB9TZX wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:14 pm

Whatever, it is a pity that this project is dead. This was the only open source community radio firmware in a well usable state. And it is probably the last. Most projects that started died because of the complexity of the work. So, we will be left with OEM firmware at the mercy of the manufacturer. Best bet is probably Anytone, which at least sometimes listens to its user base and does some firmware updates here and then. Most other, like Yaesu, Kenwood etc do never publish any updates. If we want new features, we'll need to buy a new handset again. So sad :(
Well, according to KC7RBW, he is actually "hopeful" now (and also "relieved" and some other sentiments that he wrote). He said that it does not mean that the project is dead. But he also added that he was not going to become the new maintainer.

Personally I feel sorry that it has to come to this. But oh well.

I do thank all the contributors to this project, especially Roger.
I've posted in another thread, that I think this is dead if the project has to remain GPL, becuase :-

1. GPL does not seem to allow any additional conditions of use to be applied, which are essential before anyone will spend their precious free time working on the project
2. The project is almost certainly in breach of GPL, e.g use of hacked closed source binary from the official firmware, and for including other components and source code with various other potentially incompatible licenses.
I'm not an license expert, so I have no idea what else is wrong with it.



Perhaps (2) can be resolved and stay within GPL, e.g. by making loads of changes to the firmware, but (1) is a deal breaker for everyone as far as I can tell, and can't be resolved without removal of GPL

ve7mdt
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:23 am
Location: CN89

Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by ve7mdt » Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:41 am

Thanks, Roger, for the elaboration. I have briefly read the other thread as well.

Yes, I agree that it's dead. I was trying to point out that KC7RBW (perhaps one of the few?) didn't think so (and he touted himself to be very well versed in software licenses).

It's hard to fight GPL. It's got a nickname as "copyleft" for a good reason!
73,
David
VE7ET / VE7MDT
DMR radios: D878UV, D578UV-III (not arrived yet), XPR 5550, XPR 4550, XPR 7550, SL 7550, VXD-7200, CS-800D, RD-5R, GD-77, RT3s, MD-340 (not arrived yet)
DMR repeater: XPR 8400 UHF

Post Reply