Using Hotspot mode for remote control?

M7PKY
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:07 pm

Using Hotspot mode for remote control?

Post by M7PKY » Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:14 pm

Would it be possible, for example with BlueDV, to use Hotspot mode of a radio for remote TX/RX? It would be pretty neat to be able to connect a radio and then operate it using a speaker and mic from the PC,

I'm guessing all the prerequisites are present on the OpenGD77 side, just someone needs to implement software on the PC side which is able to use the radio in this way?

VK3KYY
Posts: 7473
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Using Hotspot mode for remote control?

Post by VK3KYY » Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:39 pm

M7PKY wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:14 pm
Would it be possible, for example with BlueDV, to use Hotspot mode of a radio for remote TX/RX? It would be pretty neat to be able to connect a radio and then operate it using a speaker and mic from the PC,

I'm guessing all the prerequisites are present on the OpenGD77 side, just someone needs to implement software on the PC side which is able to use the radio in this way?
The source code for MMDVMHost is available here https://github.com/g4klx/MMDVMHost

You would need to heavily modify it, with the main problem being the audio encoding/decoding, as its protected by patents etc, so you could not share your work without legal implications

M7PKY
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:07 pm

Re: Using Hotspot mode for remote control?

Post by M7PKY » Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:16 pm

VK3KYY wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:39 pm
M7PKY wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:14 pm
Would it be possible, for example with BlueDV, to use Hotspot mode of a radio for remote TX/RX? It would be pretty neat to be able to connect a radio and then operate it using a speaker and mic from the PC,

I'm guessing all the prerequisites are present on the OpenGD77 side, just someone needs to implement software on the PC side which is able to use the radio in this way?
The source code for MMDVMHost is available here https://github.com/g4klx/MMDVMHost

You would need to heavily modify it, with the main problem being the audio encoding/decoding, as its protected by patents etc, so you could not share your work without legal implications
I wonder if it might be possible to use the AMBE+2 codec in the radio and just have the software on the PC side use PCM, avoiding any issues? I would expect this would need to be a feature of the OpenGD77 firmware though? It would be nice to be able to use OpenGD77 devices as PC controlled transceivers and also AMBE+2 en/de coders over USB like the DVStick

VK3KYY
Posts: 7473
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Using Hotspot mode for remote control?

Post by VK3KYY » Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:06 pm

M7PKY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:16 pm
VK3KYY wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:39 pm
M7PKY wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:14 pm
Would it be possible, for example with BlueDV, to use Hotspot mode of a radio for remote TX/RX? It would be pretty neat to be able to connect a radio and then operate it using a speaker and mic from the PC,

I'm guessing all the prerequisites are present on the OpenGD77 side, just someone needs to implement software on the PC side which is able to use the radio in this way?
The source code for MMDVMHost is available here https://github.com/g4klx/MMDVMHost

You would need to heavily modify it, with the main problem being the audio encoding/decoding, as its protected by patents etc, so you could not share your work without legal implications
I wonder if it might be possible to use the AMBE+2 codec in the radio and just have the software on the PC side use PCM, avoiding any issues? I would expect this would need to be a feature of the OpenGD77 firmware though? It would be nice to be able to use OpenGD77 devices as PC controlled transceivers and also AMBE+2 en/de coders over USB like the DVStick
That would require a the radio to be a composite USB device of both audio and serial
This wont work on older PCs and I doubt there would be space in the ROM of rhe radio to do this, because this it not hotspot mode, its a completely different feature

M7PKY
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:07 pm

Re: Using Hotspot mode for remote control?

Post by M7PKY » Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:14 pm

VK3KYY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:06 pm
M7PKY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:16 pm
VK3KYY wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:39 pm


The source code for MMDVMHost is available here https://github.com/g4klx/MMDVMHost

You would need to heavily modify it, with the main problem being the audio encoding/decoding, as its protected by patents etc, so you could not share your work without legal implications
I wonder if it might be possible to use the AMBE+2 codec in the radio and just have the software on the PC side use PCM, avoiding any issues? I would expect this would need to be a feature of the OpenGD77 firmware though? It would be nice to be able to use OpenGD77 devices as PC controlled transceivers and also AMBE+2 en/de coders over USB like the DVStick
That would require a the radio to be a composite USB device of both audio and serial
This wont work on older PCs and I doubt there would be space in the ROM of rhe radio to do this, because this it not hotspot mode, its a completely different feature
Not sure how it might affect ROM size, but I do not think it needs to be a composite device. Yes, I would see that it would be different to Hotspot mode at this point, but I believe the DVStick is just a full duplex serial connection running at a high enough speed to be able to maintain the bitrate of AMBE+2. If it could go slightly above the bitrate of AMBE+2 then it would also leave room not only for sending PCM and AMBE+2 frames over the line but also some control signals to set PTT and change channels.

VK3KYY
Posts: 7473
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Using Hotspot mode for remote control?

Post by VK3KYY » Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:49 pm

M7PKY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:14 pm
VK3KYY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:06 pm
M7PKY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:16 pm


I wonder if it might be possible to use the AMBE+2 codec in the radio and just have the software on the PC side use PCM, avoiding any issues? I would expect this would need to be a feature of the OpenGD77 firmware though? It would be nice to be able to use OpenGD77 devices as PC controlled transceivers and also AMBE+2 en/de coders over USB like the DVStick
That would require a the radio to be a composite USB device of both audio and serial
This wont work on older PCs and I doubt there would be space in the ROM of rhe radio to do this, because this it not hotspot mode, its a completely different feature
Not sure how it might affect ROM size, but I do not think it needs to be a composite device. Yes, I would see that it would be different to Hotspot mode at this point, but I believe the DVStick is just a full duplex serial connection running at a high enough speed to be able to maintain the bitrate of AMBE+2. If it could go slightly above the bitrate of AMBE+2 then it would also leave room not only for sending PCM and AMBE+2 frames over the line but also some control signals to set PTT and change channels.
The serial is fast enough for AMBE, thats how all hotspots work

M7PKY wants the radio to compress to AMBE, hence he would need to send audio the radio

Possibly you could send audio over Serial, as well as commands e.g. PTT.

The source code for the GD77 version of OpenGD77 is available for anyone to develop something which could do that.

M7PKY
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:07 pm

Re: Using Hotspot mode for remote control?

Post by M7PKY » Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:20 pm

VK3KYY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:49 pm
M7PKY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:14 pm
VK3KYY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:06 pm


That would require a the radio to be a composite USB device of both audio and serial
This wont work on older PCs and I doubt there would be space in the ROM of rhe radio to do this, because this it not hotspot mode, its a completely different feature
Not sure how it might affect ROM size, but I do not think it needs to be a composite device. Yes, I would see that it would be different to Hotspot mode at this point, but I believe the DVStick is just a full duplex serial connection running at a high enough speed to be able to maintain the bitrate of AMBE+2. If it could go slightly above the bitrate of AMBE+2 then it would also leave room not only for sending PCM and AMBE+2 frames over the line but also some control signals to set PTT and change channels.
The serial is fast enough for AMBE, thats how all hotspots work

M7PKY wants the radio to compress to AMBE, hence he would need to send audio the radio

Possibly you could send audio over Serial, as well as commands e.g. PTT.

The source code for the GD77 version of OpenGD77 is available for anyone to develop something which could do that.
I'd be curious to do it, but I lack C knowledge, and even if I had the knowledge I only have an MD-UV380 running the latest Alpha (and really well, I must say). Will we eventually get UV380 sources?

VK3KYY
Posts: 7473
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Using Hotspot mode for remote control?

Post by VK3KYY » Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:22 pm

M7PKY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:20 pm
VK3KYY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:49 pm
M7PKY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:14 pm


Not sure how it might affect ROM size, but I do not think it needs to be a composite device. Yes, I would see that it would be different to Hotspot mode at this point, but I believe the DVStick is just a full duplex serial connection running at a high enough speed to be able to maintain the bitrate of AMBE+2. If it could go slightly above the bitrate of AMBE+2 then it would also leave room not only for sending PCM and AMBE+2 frames over the line but also some control signals to set PTT and change channels.
The serial is fast enough for AMBE, thats how all hotspots work

M7PKY wants the radio to compress to AMBE, hence he would need to send audio the radio

Possibly you could send audio over Serial, as well as commands e.g. PTT.

The source code for the GD77 version of OpenGD77 is available for anyone to develop something which could do that.
I'd be curious to do it, but I lack C knowledge, and even if I had the knowledge I only have an MD-UV380 running the latest Alpha (and really well, I must say). Will we eventually get UV380 sources?

Sources will eventually be released, but we don't release sources until they are stable, and its currently only at Alpha.

But a good knoweldged of both PC and embedded C programming would be required, and in my experience very few people either have the experience or the time to undertake such a complex and time consuming project.

M7PKY
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:07 pm

Re: Using Hotspot mode for remote control?

Post by M7PKY » Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:26 pm

VK3KYY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:22 pm
M7PKY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:20 pm
VK3KYY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:49 pm


The serial is fast enough for AMBE, thats how all hotspots work

M7PKY wants the radio to compress to AMBE, hence he would need to send audio the radio

Possibly you could send audio over Serial, as well as commands e.g. PTT.

The source code for the GD77 version of OpenGD77 is available for anyone to develop something which could do that.
I'd be curious to do it, but I lack C knowledge, and even if I had the knowledge I only have an MD-UV380 running the latest Alpha (and really well, I must say). Will we eventually get UV380 sources?

Sources will eventually be released, but we don't release sources until they are stable, and its currently only at Alpha.

But a good knoweldged of both PC and embedded C programming would be required.
Do you foresee a future in which the project will stabilise enough for development to become open again? It would be awesome to contribute changes and get used to the codebase on the fly. I know it used to be before I even knew about it but I don't really understand what the position is even after reading the forum thread unfortunately. Not sure where you guys stand and what your reasoning is for things.

VK3KYY
Posts: 7473
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Using Hotspot mode for remote control?

Post by VK3KYY » Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:37 pm

M7PKY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:26 pm
VK3KYY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:22 pm
M7PKY wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:20 pm


I'd be curious to do it, but I lack C knowledge, and even if I had the knowledge I only have an MD-UV380 running the latest Alpha (and really well, I must say). Will we eventually get UV380 sources?

Sources will eventually be released, but we don't release sources until they are stable, and its currently only at Alpha.

But a good knoweldged of both PC and embedded C programming would be required.
Do you foresee a future in which the project will stabilise enough for development to become open again? It would be awesome to contribute changes and get used to the codebase on the fly. I know it used to be before I even knew about it but I don't really understand what the position is even after reading the forum thread unfortunately. Not sure where you guys stand and what your reasoning is for things.
Sources for the GD77 were released ages ago

I probably need to create another release with the recent bug fixes, but there haven't been any major changes on the GD77 version

The source code won't every be on Github again becuase of potential legal problems.

Source code license has to be BSD++ because of the wishes of the original developer, Kai DG4KLU and also all the subsequent developers that their work not be used for commericial gain.

People have the option to develop their own versions under the terms of the license.

However to date as far as I'm aware only one person did this, and the result was that they completely rebranded the firmware market it as a completely different firmware, which is against the sprit of the project

I've also recently noticed that the OpenRTx project took all my source code for the Voice Prompts creation, and renamed removing any references to that it was written by me and is copyright me

So when people do this sort of thing, I makes me less and less inclined to share things which take me hundreds of hours of my precious time on earth to produce and make available for the good of people like the blind operators.

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