Recent versions of firmware will be removed

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EA3BIL
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Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by EA3BIL » Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:58 am

KC7RBW wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:49 pm

Ah! Okay. I took you at your word. I generally assume people mean what they say. This is not the first time I've been wrong.
Yep, we ALL know it isn't first time...


Any new comments about "OpenGD"??

When shall we spect for your global talk to users??
Note:
Now you can find me on YouTube.
Productions are NOT in English... Yet.


73'Rafa.
EA3BIL.

KC7RBW
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Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by KC7RBW » Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:32 pm

EA3BIL wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:58 am
Yep, we ALL know it isn't first time...
For sure! I definitely took the license to mean what it says.
EA3BIL wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:58 am
Any new comments about "OpenGD"??
I drafted a comment about the CPS, but I had decided not to post it.
EA3BIL wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:58 am
When shall we spect for your global talk to users??
No plans for any global talk.

Yes, I realize you're being sarcástico. I wish you'd stop. You're one of only two people I see on this forum who think the right reaction to what's happened is to be mean to someone. Roger, for example, has been extremely civil about the whole thing.

Speaking of which, Roger, I genuinely admire how politely you've handled my request. And while I'm sad that you've decided also to end the project, I understand your reasons for it and I'm sorry that my request added to your stress. I sincerely hope you feel better soon.
Andrew | KC7RBW | ajorg

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YT5HOK
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Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by YT5HOK » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:42 pm

KC7RBW wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:32 pm
....
You're one of only two people I see on this forum who think the right reaction to what's happened is to be mean to someone.
...
Oh... You don't know how wrong you are... I would like to say so many vulgar things to you, but I'm too polite for that.

I'll just state my opinion, as freedom of speech allows me to do that: I think that you are small malicious person, unhappy with your insignificant life, that finds joy in destroying others' good things you stumble upon in your boring life.

I wish you to find happiness building something great, instead of destroying.

Cheers!
Marko

ok1pt
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Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by ok1pt » Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:43 pm

YT5HOK wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:42 pm
KC7RBW wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:32 pm
....
You're one of only two people I see on this forum who think the right reaction to what's happened is to be mean to someone.
...
Oh... You don't know how wrong you are... I would like to say so many vulgar things to you, but I'm too polite for that.

I'll just state my opinion, as freedom of speech allows me to do that: I think that you are small malicious person, unhappy with your insignificant life, that finds joy in destroying others' good things you stumble upon in your boring life.

I wish you to find happiness building something great, instead of destroying.

Cheers!
Hi!
I obviously don't react on such posts, also because I'm not sure that my English sentences are correctly formed and can't make a harm by improper wording. But sorry, I have to react here. Just to say, that from my point of view, KC7RBW didn't _want_ to destroy anything. He just wanted to rectify things, which were not in a good shape for a relatively long time. There were new releases, but in binary only, and the people who wanted to contribute on the development or just make some changes for personal use, were not allowed to participate, except a small number of people around Roger. Please believe me, that it's rather frustrating for such people. You know that KC7RBW added the DCS implemenation to the project, so you have the evidence that he was helping, not destroying. So, he just wanted to fix this problem. Politely, with detailed explanation, correctly. It's something like trying to strenghten a bent shaft in a machine: The machine still works, but with a lot of problems. And if you want to fix it, there is a risk that the shaft will break during the process, and the machine will stop. But you don't want to break it - you just want to fix it and hope that it will work as before, when the shaft was not bent yet :-).
WIth regards & 73,
Pavel

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YT5HOK
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Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by YT5HOK » Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:11 pm

ok1pt wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:43 pm
Hi!
I obviously don't react on such posts, also because I'm not sure that my English sentences are correctly formed and can't make a harm by improper wording. But sorry, I have to react here. Just to say, that from my point of view, KC7RBW didn't _want_ to destroy anything. He just wanted to rectify things, which were not in a good shape for a relatively long time. There were new releases, but in binary only, and the people who wanted to contribute on the development or just make some changes for personal use, were not allowed to participate, except a small number of people around Roger. Please believe me, that it's rather frustrating for such people. You know that KC7RBW added the DCS implemenation to the project, so you have the evidence that he was helping, not destroying. So, he just wanted to fix this problem. Politely, with detailed explanation, correctly. It's something like trying to strenghten a bent shaft in a machine: The machine still works, but with a lot of problems. And if you want to fix it, there is a risk that the shaft will break during the process, and the machine will stop. But you don't want to break it - you just want to fix it and hope that it will work as before, when the shaft was not bent yet :-).
WIth regards & 73,
Pavel
I absolutely see your point and respect your opinion, but however the project is dead now. Developers lost interest.

Similar things happen here... and everywhere... I guess... People just want to ruin new, experimental stuff, that is usually in grey area of legality.

Wasn't amateur radio always ahead of it's time...? Pushing limits...? (Rhetorical questions)

No one cared that we (amateur radio operators) use those copyrighted parts of stock firmware. Manufacturer had more sales caused by popularity of their transceiver which is caused by OpenGD77. Everyone was happy and kept quiet. We had something great. Then one of us (I would rather say he is not one of us, but unfortunately he is) started all this. And now we don't have something great anymore.

I have seen this more then once... Well, life goes on... Good things don't last forever...

Cheers mate!
Marko

n7dmr
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Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by n7dmr » Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:19 am

This reminds me the netfilter case of GPL drama.

oh1fss
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Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by oh1fss » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:53 am

The power of true open source is that an open source project never dies. The development may freeze for a moment, but as long as there is the source code, anybody has the possibility to continue.

OpenGD77 is an excellent piece of software. Sooner or later it will catch developer interest.

Nothing prevents the current developers to continue. If there is good will, the current challenges can be conquered.

mrchat9
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Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by mrchat9 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:54 am

It's a good idea to perform a backup of latest stable firmware and share by Telegram (I just downloaded it :D ).
After a milion or more radio sold into the world only now the manufacturer know's Roger Clarke OPEN GD ?...check the Chinese e-commerce site and observe the price : the GD77 and Baofeng 1801 are best sellers!!
I understand for the copyright but into network we have thousands of copy OpenGd's firmware that can be shared every day!
Sorry for my bad English....
Regards IU2MWK Mario

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Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by VK3KYY » Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:27 am

oh1fss wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:53 am
The power of true open source is that an open source project never dies. The development may freeze for a moment, but as long as there is the source code, anybody has the possibility to continue.

OpenGD77 is an excellent piece of software. Sooner or later it will catch developer interest.

Nothing prevents the current developers to continue. If there is good will, the current challenges can be conquered.
The problem is the additional clauses which Kai added to the GPL 2 license, and which all the developers (I think) agree with.

Specifically no commercial use of the firmware, and also no commercial derivations or versions of the firmware.

However, KC7RBW who is an expert, says that additional restrictions can't be applied to a GPL license.

AFIK, the opinion of KC7RBW is disputed by G4KLX, who has the same restrictions on MMDVMHost.
G4KLX says that no one can make commercial derivations of MMDVMHost, and also no commercial users can use it on their network.

AFIK KC7RBW is an expert in "Open Source Compliance", becuase its his job.

So commcerial companies can now take the firmware, which has taken thousands of hours of work by Kai, Me, Daniel, Colin, Alex etc etc and make their own version e.g. with encryption and sell this for $$$ to commercial users.

We already had a problem 1 + years ago, with a company finding a loophole to charge $50 extra for a GD-77 with the OpenGD77 firmware, because they said the $50 is an installation cost.

The time to install the OpenGD77 is probably 5 mins absolute max. So hourly rate for this company when installing the firmware is 12 x $50 = $600 per hour.
I just timed it an the firmware takes 30 seconds.

So really you could open the box, install the firmware and put the radio back in the box in 2 or 3 minutes easily

Pay per hour = $1500

There are already test cases in consumer law, which show that companies charging this are not actually charging for the installation, they are charging for the software


Or

If Danial, Colin and I work on SFR for which perhaps takes us 100 + hours (300 man hours)

I know Hytera charge $500+ for the SRF upgrade to their radios. So some company can again sell this for $500.

Remember commercial companies don't just download random firmware from the internet and install it on their radio, but they would buy a radio which has this feature and pay $400 as its cheaper than buying a Hytera


So everyone has to work for 100+ hours for free, and the some company makes $500 + many times

Would you work for 100+ hours for free and then say is OK for some company to make $10k + on your work ? Really.


So the core development team stops and the project ends

Yes people can play with the souce code and change the text and add a few small things. Perhaps even add Channel dual watch and some other things.

All the Italian devs, who are experts, now work on OpenRTX and M17.

I don't think KC7RBW said he would be continuing as main developer. I think he said he would delete his repo after he finished removing items which don't comply with the Open Source license


So unless the license is changed to prevent the commercialisation of the firmware, then I think its difficult for it to continue.

Also, even allowing constant access to the source code is potentially a problem, because some companies just ignore the law.

I don't know if its true, but I heard that perhaps some commercial hotspots use MMDVMhost even though G4KLX forbids this.

VK3KYY
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Re: Recent versions of firmware will be removed

Post by VK3KYY » Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:47 am

What I guess is needed is some arrangement, where people can access the firmware source code, if they agree they will not use it commercially or against the wishes of ham community

However this is not easy to achiveve, as it requrires a license change, but there is external code and also user submissions (PRs), which have licenses which allow unrestricted access and commercial usage.

I won't bore you with the details, but things like Hotspot mode would need to be removed, but potentially apart from that it may be possible.

But perhaps I'm in a minority in terms of preventing abuse of the source code and the firmware.

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