Using dev environment to expand CTCSS/DCS tone list.

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Vertzz
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Using dev environment to expand CTCSS/DCS tone list.

Post by Vertzz » Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:07 pm

Hi, I bought this radio both as a quality SDR HT for personal use, but to also have a known-quality, reliable and powerful HT for my work which only I am responsible for.
The tone code list restriction self-imposed by the dev "VK3KKY" makes it impossible to use for my work channels.

What and where in the code do I need to change to allow "non standard" CTCSS/DCS tones? Nearly every HT radio on the planet, from Motorolas and Yaesus to the cheapest Baofeng knockoffs, support tone filters "not on the recommended" list, and having such an arbitrary restriction makes me look and feel like a fool.

I'd just like to add: Tone code restrictions are not a law nor are they punishable, they are a suggestion, and if the most prominent and high quality handset manufacturers think the limitation is a bad idea, surely we should be inclined to agree.
For example, the radios my work provides use a D225N DCS tone. The OGD77 firmware only support 223N or 226N.
My (short) understanding of tone codes is you're >suggested< to limit interference between similar codes, but after looking at the "official" limited code list, there is no 252 or 522 DCS tone which would interfere with/which a 225 tone would interfere with. Please refer to the table in Wikipedia's "Squelch" article, subsection #DCS linked here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squelch#DCS.

I humble ask that VK3KKY drop the pretenses of worrying about interference and please expand the CTCSS/DCS tone list to make the open firmware more functional for common users.
Frankly, I do not understand your problem with/hesitation towards doing a thing that nearly every commercial radio manufacturer already does. It limits the usefulness of our radios.

Regards,
Craig M

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F1RMB
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Re: Using dev environment to expand CTCSS/DCS tone list.

Post by F1RMB » Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:13 pm

Vertzz wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:07 pm
...
Frankly, I do not understand...
And that's the main problem.
Read again about CTCSS and DCS, and you will understand.

Thanks.
---
Daniel

Vertzz
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Re: Using dev environment to expand CTCSS/DCS tone list.

Post by Vertzz » Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:23 pm

No, frankly, I do not understand, and it's insulting that you say I haven't read the squelch control standards.

I'm throwing my arms in the air here.
My question was "How do I roll my own OGD77 to utilize non-standard tone controls, because I need that capability due to nearly all HTs using non-standard lists".

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F1RMB
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Re: Using dev environment to expand CTCSS/DCS tone list.

Post by F1RMB » Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:40 pm

Again, read again about CTCSS and DCS. Your very first message is full of errors at every levels (you even got the callsign wrong, twice...).

You want to add false-positive/duplicate subtones ? Feel free to modify the code.

W9YA
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Re: Using dev environment to expand CTCSS/DCS tone list.

Post by W9YA » Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:05 pm

Vertzz wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:23 pm
No, frankly, I do not understand, and it's insulting that you say I haven't read the squelch control standards.

I'm throwing my arms in the air here.
My question was "How do I roll my own OGD77 to utilize non-standard tone controls, because I need that capability due to nearly all HTs using non-standard lists".
GREAT WAY to ask for help....

(Lids, kids, and space cadets......as long as I am on this planet some things continue to amuse and amaze me ...)

Vertzz
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Re: Using dev environment to expand CTCSS/DCS tone list.

Post by Vertzz » Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:18 pm

You guys are great ^_^
Never change, FOSS community.

So helpful, answer so many needs. Always solve problems :D

Regards,
Craig M.

ok1pt
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Re: Using dev environment to expand CTCSS/DCS tone list.

Post by ok1pt » Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:39 am

Hi!
Let me explain it a bit. In the WIki page for the DCS, they are stating, that from a total capacity of 512 DCS codes only 83 is available "to avoid falsing due to alignment collisions".
What does it mean ? I'll try to explain it by a very very simplified example:
Let's have a DCS system sending periodically triplets of digits in the range 0-2, i.e. there are the following combinations:
012 120 201 210 102 021.
How many combinations can you really use from these six ones ?
Just 2 (TWO). Why ?
Lets imagine you are sending the first combo. Periodically. So, the stream will be 012012012012012012....
And now let's try the second combo: 120120120120120120120120120....
And the third: 201201201201201201201201201.....
Looking in the middle of the stream, they are IDENTICAL! All contain the "basic" 012 sequence again and again.
It's very probable (almost sure) that the very beginning of the stream, which is the only what differs, will not be received, because the receiver circuits need some time to adapt to the received signal, set the proper gain etc... So, a few bits will be missing, and you have to sync from the middle of the stream. And you can't do it, because all the streams are the same.
Similarly, the remaining three combinations produce identical stream, but different from the first one: 210210210210210210210210...
Do you see ? There isn't a typical fragment of "012" frtom the stream, but there is "210" instead.
Fine. And now: You have two radio manufacturers. One of them is serious and tells you: Our radios offer 2 DCS codes: 012 and 210.
And the other tells you: We have 2 standard DCS codes and 4 non-standard! What's better ?

An example of such a sh***y radios are Anytone AT-D878UV and similar models. There is no check of the entered DCS code, so you can enter anything from 000 to 777! And it's extremely stupid. Because I understand what's really happening, I would like to use a recommended code to prevent colliding with other codes. And it's not even possible! I have to take a table of regular DCS codes to seek for one! So, thanks to the developers of OpenGD77 for making extra effort to implement this table to the radio for me. To be honest, I didn't look to the sources if it's really there, it's possible that it's in the chipset and you send just a DCS code index when programming it for TX/RX, I don't know. Feel free to look to the public source code, modify it and recompile for your own pleasure :-).

With regards / 73,
OK1PT Pavel

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YT5HOK
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Re: Using dev environment to expand CTCSS/DCS tone list.

Post by YT5HOK » Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:19 pm

Vertzz wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:07 pm
...for my work...
OpenGD77 is not for commercial use. So, you can't modify it, nor use it. Now, move on...

Vertzz
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Re: Using dev environment to expand CTCSS/DCS tone list.

Post by Vertzz » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:20 pm

I repeat:

"...looking at the "official" limited code list, there is no 252 or 522 DCS tone which would interfere with/which a 225 tone would interfere with. Please refer to the table in Wikipedia's "Squelch" article, subsection #DCS linked here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squelch#DCS."

"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squelch#DCS"
"there is no 252 or 522 DCS tone which would interfere with/which a 225 tone would interfere with"

What exactly is the problem you have.

OE1MWW
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Re: Using dev environment to expand CTCSS/DCS tone list.

Post by OE1MWW » Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:12 am

Vertzz wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:20 pm

What exactly is the problem you have.
nobody in this group having a problem. It's just you, having a problem.

you misunderstand the function of this board and which participants can be found here. The style and tone
with which you formulate your demands are remarkable, as if you had already paid for something you expect
and which you can not find now. the firmware is free and - use as it is -

OpenGD77 was never designed for - as you call them 'common user', it is written and used by Radio Amateurs,
it does not limit any usage that it was designed for.

you said: "having such an arbitrary restriction makes me look and feel like a fool." OK, we accept that!

go on, maybe you will find a hardware/software company, pay them, *maybe* they can modify your HT for your demand.
but be careful, license conditions could come into play

73's de OE1MWW
Wolfgang

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